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Old Oct 22, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNova88
Didn't see anyone complain about titles until this thread was posted.
Lol thas tellin em. The whinners will always whine there's no use even talking to them. They will rationalize by being irrational. I forgot that you shouldn't feed the lil trolls.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00   #82
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Bazompora, i would love to know why you think your the only one entitled to an opinion here? And when anyone says anything in favour of titles, you tell them they're wrong.

I agree with you on some points, but you take it too far.

Yes, PvP elitism based on ranks, should go. Yes, the "we accept the guy with highest LB rank" attitude in DoA, should go. Yes, making us grind for armour in GW:EN was just not needed. But some of your points are flawed.

You say Treasure hunter / Lucky / Wisdom are compulsory? How? Because you get a bit less % of breaking things you salvage? A tad more % of a gold dropping? Don't you think the people putting that time in for the ranks, deserve that bit more %? And people like you who sit and whine that you don't want to do it, also deserve that little reward? It IN NO WAY effects gameplay.

You say all you want to do is play the game. Luck / salvaged based titles 1) do not stop you completing missions. 2) do not stop you completing quests. 3) do not stop you buying w/e the hell you want. These 3, amongst tons of others (drunkard i believe you mentioned too.. lol) are completely optional.

They are there, so that people who want to, have something else to do. Titles that revolve around causing elitism or to progress with the story should go, but not optional titles that give you a little bonus for grinding it.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15   #83
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You tell em dan. These people that whine about grind just don't want anyone else to be happy because they are not happy. The ole trolls at work at their best. None of these features affect them yet they scream bloody murder like they do. It just makes me laugh even more.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43   #84
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I hope there are more titles in GW2 than GW1 that DO directly effect game play. Honestly they all should. A veteran is just that and deserves some way to distinguish them selves from the noob. I have literally wasted hundreds of hours trying to pug just to have the group fail via, insert all the pug defects here. YES, I discriminate and have been discriminated against, and rightly so. People ESPECIALLY those with limited time no longer want to waste it on the under experienced.

If my title directly tells people "I have some inkling of a clue" then yes I'll proudly wear it. Also for the record I gave up on pugs about 6 months ago. I only play with my guildies and alliance members.

On to all the people crying skill>time. Without time you have no skill. Luck maybe but skill no. The proof is this: an apprentice, followed by the journyman , and lastly the master this is also reflected in there pay. so time = skill. Not to mention that games, like communities evolve. Either learn to adapt (that means play) or go the way of the dinosaur, we won't miss you.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12   #85
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Let titles in GW2 be any title you have transfered via HoM in GW with no functionality whatsoever. Any reward given to people in GW2 for titles in GW should be purely cosmetic, allowing such players to separate themselves from others based on titles earned in GW, but not allowing them to gain an advantage over people with no titles transferred to GW nor the people who may have transferred a different title.

Done.

GW2 people who played GW and got special titles could only be set apart by appearance. Does this mean that they should be considered better than people without those titles?

Absolutely. Because they will have spent more time with the game achieving that certain goal, they should be rightfully considered to be better than the average person that has not achieved such a title.

Room for elitism? You bet, but good luck with solving an issue like that. Elitism will be around as long as competition is around, which will always be around when you have people that want to be better than others in a game.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Likelytodie
Is this what you're referring to when you say to read up?
Actually ... no.
I started out by showing how certain title tracks tax the players for not grinding them:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
Title tracks such as Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Lucky, Lightbringer, Luxon, Kurzick, etc. have been imposed on the playerbase: the 3 firstnamed reduce the chance to break salvageables (after the devs lowered succes rate by 25%, in order to grind your way back to the former level) and lockpicks, while the latter make themselves indispensible for farmers trying to stay within the economical top.
This quote also explains my position better, than the part you quoted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
See, titles would be OK, if you have the choice to leave them but and not be disadvantaged for that choice. As it is now in GW1, that's not the case for title tracks as Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Luck, Luxon, Kurzick and Lightbringer, who put players at a disadvantage, if they don't gain ranks in them.
However, you did get my point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Likelytodie
"thus not give game play advantages"
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Likelytodie
Just because they decided to reward the people who have decided to angle their game play towards the title-grind does not mean that the title is no longer completely optional.

Optional - Adj. - left to one's choice; not required or mandatory

So, what are any of the titles required for? Anet lets you choose in which direction you angle your game play. The fact that it gives you a slight advantage (almost non-existent and not required to play the game) does not compromise the fact that it is still optional.
How's automatic taxation for not grinding optional? I never was given the option to be exempted from this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Bazompora, i would love to know why you think your the only one entitled to an opinion here? And when anyone says anything in favour of titles, you tell them they're wrong.

I agree with you on some points, but you take it too far.
If there's anyone taking it too far, it is you: you couldn't fire my arguments, so you fire on me instead.
And of course I show people they're wrong, when they are; this is a discussion, not a socialisation project. But I never stated noone else is entitled to an opinion. In fact, you're the one who's attacking me on sharing my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
You say Treasure hunter / Lucky / Wisdom are compulsory? How? Because you get a bit less % of breaking things you salvage? A tad more % of a gold dropping?
If one decides not to indulge in grinding titles, he's down to 50% succesfull salvage, thus 1 chance on 2 to destroy valuable items and absolutely abominable circumstances for extracting costy bonuses from costy items; maxing the Treasure Hunter title and the Wisdom title gives one 92% succesfull salvage, thus only 1 chance on 12.5 to destroy valuable items! And you call dividing failure by 6 (and a quarter) a tad more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Don't you think the people putting that time in for the ranks, deserve that bit more %?
No; the title itself is the reward. Tax reduction shouldn't be an additional reward for grinding, as a tax on playing instead of working shouldn't be there in the first place. Workers allready gain more for playing more, so there's no need to additionally and artificially widen the gap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
And people like you who sit and whine that you don't want to do it, also deserve that little reward?
Again: tax reduction from a discriminating tax shouldn't be a reward, for such taxing shouldn't be there in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
It IN NO WAY effects gameplay.
IT DOES affect gameplay: those who refuse to grind these titles earn less and have to farm more for their "income" (money to pay in-game expenses).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
You say all you want to do is play the game. Luck / salvaged based titles 1) do not stop you completing missions. 2) do not stop you completing quests.
Playing the game means more than only playing missions and quests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
3) do not stop you buying w/e the hell you want.
While these titles do not stop me completely (100% gain reduction), they do slow me down (up to 42% and 39% gain reduction, salvage and lockpicks respectively).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
(drunkard i believe you mentioned too.. lol)
No, I did not! We have the evidence in front of us (this thread), so why even attempt to disgrace me with lies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
They are there, so that people who want to, have something else to do.
Oh, I don't plee against the titles being there for grinders; I plee against non-grinders being disadvanted for not enjoying grind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Titles that revolve around causing elitism or to progress with the story should go.
You surprise me; elitism is the prime motivator for maxing titles and story-progress titles are the mildest in grind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
but not optional titles that give you a little bonus for grinding it.
A /rank emote is a bonus; giving grinders advantages over players is discriminiation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonya
These people that whine about grind just don't want anyone else to be happy because they are not happy.
No. I want everyone to be happy, "players" and "grinders", instead of "players" having to be less happy so "grinders" can be considered "happier" than them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zamial
I hope there are more titles in GW2 than GW1 that DO directly effect game play. Honestly they all should. A veteran is just that and deserves some way to distinguish them selves from the noob.
You do realise that noone will then credit your victories to professionalism, but to your accumulated advantage. In fact, your successes will not prove you better than a "noob" anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamial
On to all the people crying skill>time. Without time you have no skill. Luck maybe but skill no.
Oh really? Then how comes some people immediately get the hang at a game, while others need exercise to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamial
The proof is this: an apprentice, followed by the journyman , and lastly the master this is also reflected in there pay. so time = skill.
And apprentices can surpass their masters in life. So your equation doesn't hold.
Last edited by Bazompora; Oct 23, 2007 at 02:08 AM // 02:08..
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21   #87
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So, you're telling me how not going for titles taxes people.

First off, it doesn't tax you at all the way I see it. It simply adds benefit (a small one) to those who do decide to follow the title. The system is based upon merit. In other words, you get what you work for.

Second off, we are talking about titles in GW2, nothing guarantees that the titles in GW2 will have any benefit associated with them. A title needs to be nothing more than that. A way to show, that this is what I did, and something to show where your focus in the game is.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42   #88
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Originally Posted by Bazompora
And apprentices can surpass their masters in life. So your equation doesn't hold.
ahhh, young apprentice but then they are a master.


btw the rest of what you wrote to my post makes little or no sense at all.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27   #89
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Heh, right, people do the drok's run to get max armor because of the survivor title. Newsflash, people have been doing that since the beginning of the game.

Titles haven't ruined anything. They've added options for you to go for if you want to. If you consider them grind, don't bloody worry about them, and stop complaining that someone else gets some text under their name that you don't have.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08   #90
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What people need to realize is that no one is forcing you to do anything.

First, some people, like myself, ENJOY getting titles (most of them not even for the in-game benefit, but for the sense of achievement).

Second, for the titles that DO confer an in-game benefit and you don't get a sense of achievement: you want that extra +dmg vs demons(as an example, although this logic works for all others)? Sure, it may be grind. However, in YOUR opinion, is it worth grinding to get it? If yes, the do it. If you DON'T think it's worth it, then don't do it. No need to tell others that the can't get the benifit (in-game or fun/sense of achievement) if they think it is worth it for them.

As a side note: yes, doesn't solve a problem: elitists. And you know what? Take away titles, and they will STILL find some way to be "elite". Titles don't make elitists, PLAYERS do. (And yes, that was an intentional reference to the saying about guns.)

EDIT: whoops, quite a bit more interesting posts than I had read before posting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicendre
Elite armors don't give you anything else than having a nice look...And on top of that, armors which were a big part of the promotion aren't avaliable for everyone if you don't want to spend your day farming.
You DO realize you are discussing ELITE armor in GWEN? EotN armor is elite enough to be expensive, but not elite enough to require putting work into getting them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
I bet you 5k that someone will jump out with "you don't have to grind or use pve-only skills" or something like that
Ill take a stab at it. You don't. You can use PvE-only skills if you want to AND if you think it is worth it. Just because you don't think its worth it to bring a low rank title-based skill because either a) you don't want to grind on principle or b) you don't think it is worth it, does NOT mean that no one should be able to grind to make that skill better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicendre
Still, a question goes through my mind.
Why does Anet want me, who payed for all chapters, and even bought GWEN on the online store, to be "punished" (not rewarded) because I don't like grinding ?
What if there weren't any grind-based objectives in GW at all? Everyone just wants to play the game. Let's even assume that everyone bought all campaigns + EotN + 2 character slots for a PvE toon of each profession. Complete story-based objectives on one character, maybe even all of them, then rinse and repeat for other characters and objectives. Then what? You have 10 characters with nothing left to do because the only thing there was to do was story-based, and you did it all. What an interesting game. *rolls eyes*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
However, I don't get why some want certain titles to remain compulsory; why do grind-enforcement defenders want everyone to be compelled into the grindmill or taxed for failing to grind enough?
Who says they are compulsory? Oh, right. SS rank for native characters. Fine, get ANet to remove that req for doing the primary quests. Problem solved, and titles remain unchanged. Now before someone replies saying LB is compulsory for DoA, you must first define compulsory. For what? Completing the storyline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
How's automatic taxation for not grinding optional? I never was given the option to be exempted from this.
It works the same as in real life. How's automatic taxation for not working optional? (IE this "automatic taxation" is not getting paid) I never was given the option to be exempted from this. It's optional because you have the choice of whether or not you think it is worth it to grind (or in my example above, to work).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
If one decides not to indulge in grinding titles, he's down to 50% succesfull salvage, thus 1 chance on 2 to destroy valuable items and absolutely abominable circumstances for extracting costy bonuses from costy items; maxing the Treasure Hunter title and the Wisdom title gives one 92% succesfull salvage, thus only 1 chance on 12.5 to destroy valuable items! And you call dividing failure by 6 (and a quarter) a tad more?
As others have said, this is why there are Perfect Salvage Kits. Don't have EotN? Buy 'em from a player. Don't want to spent some money on it? If it's worth making a fuss about a high % salvage, its worth spending the money on the kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
Playing the game means more than only playing missions and quests.
Quite right. It also, among things YOU enjoy, can mean having FUN working on titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
You surprise me; elitism is the prime motivator for maxing titles and story-progress titles are the mildest in grind.
Says who? HA? DoA? Thank you for showing me that my way of fun that doesn't discriminate between different strangers is elitism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazompora
No. I want everyone to be happy, "players" and "grinders"
Then why crusade against some players avenue of fun? Is other's fun only important once your fun has been established? Also, since when are "grinders" not "players"?

Seriously, why do lazy people think that just because there is benefit A in doing action B, they MUST receice benefit A in order to experience the game to it's fullest. (Possible exception: DoA, but see above)
Last edited by theblackmage; Oct 23, 2007 at 08:13 AM // 08:13..
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04   #91
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It's jealousy, it's always been about jealousy when it came to grind. Those that don't have the TIME are jealous of those that do. It's why they harp on skill>time excuse all the time. It's their only scape goat now, but, that's just what that excuse is now just a GOAT it serves not much purpose as it did before. Grind has arrived in GW and grind is here to stay in GW and in GW2 I would imagine. Titles are fun to grind for. PVE only skills an increasing their power is fun to grind for. It makes me stand out amongst those that don't have the TIME to get them. I get in groups all the time with my maxed out Lightbringer rank. I get in groups all the time with my maxed out Factions PVE only skills. So, yes some things DISTINGUISH me from others because I put in the TIME to get them and now I am popular and wanted and loved by entire communities inside the game. Long live grind and titles.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35   #92
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Could we quit the e-p33n slapping contest some time soon please?


Personally, I don't give a toss whether titles are included or not... as it doesn't make a shred of difference as far as I'm concerned (provided any that ARE included are potentially ignorable).
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonya
It's jealousy, it's always been about jealousy when it came to grind. Those that don't have the TIME are jealous of those that do. It's why they harp on skill>time excuse all the time.
Yeah, original game design we've seen in Proph doesn't mean anything.
Quote:
Grind has arrived in GW and grind is here to stay in GW and in GW2 I would imagine.
Replace GW2 with 'another generic MMO, like World of Grindcraft or Grindage'.

Quote:
So, yes some things DISTINGUISH me from others because I put in the TIME to get them
Good thing people don't have to put their skill to get pve skills maxed, otherwise they may not be able to get em ;o
Last edited by BlackSephir; Oct 23, 2007 at 11:14 AM // 11:14..
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36   #94
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I enjoy the titles, because the titles related to stuff like mapping, doing the missions in hard mode and normal mode and stuff like that remind me that there are parts of the game that are incomplete. Yeah, anyone can 'pass' the game, but did u pass all of it? Titles are related to achievements. For me, i have not completed the game until i have unlocked all of the achievements.

And the best part of the titles is YOU DONT NEED TO DO THEM. The only title that really matters at all in the game is the Hero title, which has got to do with the expirience of the player, which is fair enough if you ask me.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04   #95
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Originally Posted by zamial
I hope there are more titles in GW2 than GW1 that DO directly effect game play. Honestly they all should. A veteran is just that and deserves some way to distinguish them selves from the noob. I have literally wasted hundreds of hours trying to pug just to have the group fail via, insert all the pug defects here. YES, I discriminate and have been discriminated against, and rightly so. People ESPECIALLY those with limited time no longer want to waste it on the under experienced.

On to all the people crying skill>time. Without time you have no skill. Luck maybe but skill no. The proof is this: an apprentice, followed by the journyman , and lastly the master this is also reflected in there pay. so time = skill. Not to mention that games, like communities evolve. Either learn to adapt (that means play) or go the way of the dinosaur, we won't miss you.
Sorry but if you think doing titles is making you a veteran, you need to look at them a bit more...
The only veteran titles I can think about are Protectors/Guardians and the PvP titles. They don't give you any advantage, except some more Baltha for the PvP's, but that's not really important as most PvP-ranked people have unlocked everything. Most of the rest are just about doing something mindlessly.
-Gamer/Lucky/Unlucky : stay AFK on some heavy-lag day (omigod ur so skillz!!1).
-Survivor : either take a farming build and hope you don't die, or play with henches and a selfheal build. (of course if you play good enough to not die I will consider it skill).
-LDoA : find a Strider. Take off your armor. Come back on the next day. Kill the Strider. Find a Strider...
-Drunkard/Sweet Tooth : click on an icon all day.
-Wisdom : buy un-id objects for 1K and hope you're lucky.
-Treasure Hunter : find a spot. Open the chest. Come back to town. Open the chest.
-Skill Hunter : a bit less of a grind, but still it doesn't show you're skilled, only you have lots of gold. Look for bosses in GuildWiki. Buy a signet of capture. Kill them.
-Legendary Cartographer : look the blurred places on your map. If you need help, download Textmod.
-Sunspear/Lightbringer/GWEN titles/Factions Titles : the ones we're complaining about. Go out of town, kill mobs, if you aren't bored already and if you're working on the GWEN's redo the primaries/dungeons and give someone a book.


BTW, you don't NEED titles to finish the game. But they are of an enormous help. For example, interrupt + Pain Inverter = -40% of the Great Destoyer's life. He's a boss. An easy boss, but still a boss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackmage
What if there weren't any grind-based objectives in GW at all? Everyone just wants to play the game. Let's even assume that everyone bought all campaigns + EotN + 2 character slots for a PvE toon of each profession. Complete story-based objectives on one character, maybe even all of them, then rinse and repeat for other characters and objectives. Then what? You have 10 characters with nothing left to do because the only thing there was to do was story-based, and you did it all. What an interesting game. *rolls eyes*
I don't blame grinding, and if you like it, it's your choice, and you should have the pleasure to do it whenever you want and showing off, that's not my problem.
My problem is that Anet now rewards grind with something USEFUL.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicendre
I don't blame grinding, and if you like it, it's your choice, and you should have the pleasure to do it whenever you want and showing off, that's not my problem.
My problem is that Anet now rewards grind with something USEFUL.
I'd actually be inclined to agree with you on that point.

I certainly have no issue with titles when they are JUST titles..... but when other rewards are being given out for grinding the titles, not only are those titles going to become more common.... but many people aren't doing it for the title itself so much as the bonus that comes with it.

I mean... how many people seriously want the Dwarven Titles for their own sake? Do you think I like walking around labelled as a Daring Delver? Is it supposed to be some sort of reference to private activities with Jora?

Only a few amongst the newer titles do I actually like the sound of.... such as my Rit having Rank 3 Norn (Slayer of Nightmares)... which is very appropriate for a Rit but sadly won't last very long. The Asuran Max-Rank title (Not Too Shabby) is something I say a lot IRL too, so that is one I'm quite likely to wear when I get it, though much of the impact is taken off by the rest of the title track and that people identify it as nothing more than "Asuran Max-Rank".


Titles aren't just titles any more; they're a system... a proxy for other things.
I just don't like that.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonya
It's jealousy, it's always been about jealousy when it came to grind. Those that don't have the TIME are jealous of those that do. It's why they harp on skill>time excuse all the time. It's their only scape goat now, but, that's just what that excuse is now just a GOAT it serves not much purpose as it did before. Grind has arrived in GW and grind is here to stay in GW and in GW2 I would imagine. Titles are fun to grind for. PVE only skills an increasing their power is fun to grind for. It makes me stand out amongst those that don't have the TIME to get them. I get in groups all the time with my maxed out Lightbringer rank. I get in groups all the time with my maxed out Factions PVE only skills. So, yes some things DISTINGUISH me from others because I put in the TIME to get them and now I am popular and wanted and loved by entire communities inside the game. Long live grind and titles.
Wow, you're the biggest argument against grind I've heard yet!

Glad you're popular somewhere though!

(I hope, for your sake, you were being sarcastic?)
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20   #98
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Certain titles, imo, need to come back for GW2.

If there is a Hero's Ascent or something like it, there has to be Fame and Rank and stuff. (Although, everyone except rank 9+'s hate rank discrimination.) If there are Random and Team Arenas, I think there should be glad titles.

Things like Wisdom (WTB UnID's ch33p!) and Treasure Hunter (WTB Keys!) and survivor title (I hate it when you're doing a mission and someone exits the game before they die so they can save for survivor) need to be abolished.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyatta
Certain titles, imo, need to come back for GW2.

If there is a Hero's Ascent or something like it, there has to be Fame and Rank and stuff. (Although, everyone except rank 9+'s hate rank discrimination.) If there are Random and Team Arenas, I think there should be glad titles.

Things like Wisdom (WTB UnID's ch33p!) and Treasure Hunter (WTB Keys!) and survivor title (I hate it when you're doing a mission and someone exits the game before they die so they can save for survivor) need to be abolished.
Vice versa.
PvP e-p33n titles need to be abolished.
PvE titles for random stuff need to be relegated to merely "pretty" status and kept.
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Old Oct 23, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42   #100
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Guild: Roses of the Moonlight Sigil [RoMS]
Profession: W/Rt
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Since when is LB required for anything at all? I finished NF without achieving even the first rank, and had zero difficulties. Zero, and it's all been with H/H. All this "It's required! It gives you advantages!" boo-hooing is very amusing to me.

Keep titles! They are fun, they give me something to do when I'm done with the main campaigns, and they certainly don't make your game any less enjoyable if you don't want to do them. Don't deceive yourselves
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